Interview conducted on February 12, 2021

RL: Could you talk about your early days in fashion and how you came to be who you are now?

CB: My name is Caroline Baker and I was born in Argentina, but my parents were British. They went to Argentina in between wars because there was a huge recession in Europe, and there were no jobs. Then there became a fallout with President Peron in Argentina, and my parents thought I’d have no future. So my parents sent me to relatives in England. Back then it was either become a secretary, nurse, or stewardess and I became a secretary. From there, I got introduced to Molly Parkin, who got to be quite well known, NOVA magazine had launched for the new intelligent woman who didn’t want to read Vogue. This woman was actually, the woman who read newspapers. More interested in journalism.

I came across an Army Surplus store when I was young that I adored. Which a lot of people associate me with. I began to explore alternative venues. Another thing I launched in the world was leg warmers because I went to the ballet shop and I put men/women in tights, this was before leggings. Now people don’t understand what was shocking about anything I ever did, because it's what everybody does but back then it didn’t happen. I was exploring all these crazy avenues at NOVA magazine and did a lot of work that came quite well known. I didn’t realize I had so many people following me. What was really funny is after I did my army surplus stuff, I went to Paris to see some shows and suddenly there was all the army surplus looks at a Kenzo show, and you suddenly realize “wow, my crazy ideas worked”. Basically, that's how I started, then NOVA magazine became victim to a massive recession in Great Britain in the ’70s. This made the punk movement, huge unemployment, a big change in government, safety pins, torn-up clothes, and a big change in fashion. So I became a freelance person when NOVA folded, and that's when people came to recognize me. British Vogue got in touch with me because Grace Coddington had been in an accident. But I was too punky, and she then said “I’m sorry Caroline, we can't quite fit you in.” By then, I had worked with a lot of photographers and they got me freelance jobs afterward. 

I went on a trip to Jamaica to find work but didn’t have any luck. I returned home to England where I lived by Vivienne Westwood. We used to hang out in her shop SEX on Kings Road and she offered me a job. So I became her assistant for a year. We worked on the Mud collection together. One day, I ran into Liz Smith, who was the editor of British Cosmopolitan, so she said to me “I'm leaving Cosmo, do you want to come to Cosmo?” and I thought it might be good to have a regular salary. I was never a rich girl so I was never able to buy rich clothing. So when I went to British Cosmo, they would let me have control, I did the Pirate collection, putting men in tights. But then, the Japanese took over Paris runways in the 1980s and British Cosmo couldn’t deal with that and I had a massive row with the editor about what I had control over. She told me to go do a story on Karl Lagerfeld because Chanel had just signed him. I did the interview with Karl but that was the end of me at Cosmopolitan because she just wasn’t into my work. 

Then, Oliviero Toscani had gotten in touch with me and I was doing the Benetton campaigns with him and we were having real fun doing the United Colors of The World. The shoots were massive, with models from all over the world and I would have to go to Venice and pick from these millions of clothes, the clothes we were putting in the ads and I did them for about 3 or 4 years. At that time, between than I had a baby so I had to become more responsible. Sunday Times then came and offered me a job and I was able to buy myself a flat, which meant I had a mortgage, which meant I had to be more serious about making money. That's when I began to play the fashion game the proper way. 

RL: How do you feel about the pandemic and how it affected the fashion industry, turning shows to digital, how does that make you feel?

CB: Well, visually, I think it's beautiful, the set designs are fantastic. I don’t know business-wise how positive it is though. Fashion editors aren't important anymore but labels still are and the people with money do buy the labels so when Dior or Chanel has a beautiful fashion show somewhere. I think it's a really difficult time for people right now.

RL: Did you go to any school for fashion or any education?  

CB: I had no fashion background at all, I didn't realize I could’ve gone to school, I never knew that the Royal College of Art was up and running. But I think when you’re drawn into fashion, you're a fashion natural. You’re absorbing what's happening, you instantly see something that is different and new that is going to be influential. We have some kind of intuition in us, people who are mad about fashion and it's quite fascinating. When I first started I was wearing the looks I was going to put on people for work. I always thought men's clothing was so fantastic. I always thought you could look feminine in menswear and you didn’t have to be wanting to turn into a man. At the time, Yves Saint Laurent had played around with a tuxedo, but a trouser suit wasn’t in a women’s wardrobe, which now they are. Another obsession of mine was layering, like putting a bra on top of it. When I first started like in the 50s and 60s, your boyfriend would die if he saw your bra strap or something like that. With fashion, you have to be completely brave to go out looking somewhere completely different, because you’ll become judged. 

RL: What magazines have you worked with?

CB: Cosmopolitan, Elle, Italian Marie Claire, the funny thing about the Italians is they would send me a suitcase of advertisers' clothing, that was something I never had to do at NOVA. Advertisers back then had you by the throat and you had to feature their clothing. I worked at British Vogue briefly but I’m not really a Conde Nast kind of person. Then from there, I went to a big newspaper group called Mail on Sunday, where I finished up my career at You Magazine. 

RL: When did you start working with Katharine Hamnett? 

CB: I did Katharine’s shows in the 1980s, “Stay Alive in ‘85” when she was doing all the protest T-Shirts. Her agent was Lynn Franks, as was mine. Katharine and I have the same spirit and approach to life, as do Vivienne and me. Vivienne is very immersed in history. Her early patents were corsets and jackets, she loved that turn-of-the-century stuff. She's very influenced by history as opposed to Katharine who's influenced by menswear and army surplus.

RL: What was the experience like working with Helmut Newton?

CB: I was amazed he was allowed to work with us because of his contract with Conde Nast but he really liked NOVA magazine. He would ring me up and say “Oh Caroline, let's do something”, so I would turn up with clothes that he wasn’t getting from other magazines he was associated with. I used to do work with him in his studio along with his wife Alice Springs. 

RL: What do you think the fashion industry looks like once everything gets back to normal? Can you predict anything?

CB: People say things are going to change a lot, but I don’t think they will. I love fashion magazines, the whole fashion world. I think people gain so much from it that I can’t imagine it disappearing. People are saying it's going to be difficult for the paper so maybe my grandchildren's generation will never get into magazines again but you’ll flick through them on your tablets. However, I think the designers will carry on, all the fashion schools everywhere, and the talented people will bubble up to the top of fashion schools. Talented people with a new vision, even if the new vision is an old one because when you study fashion you realize you're redoing a lot of history. I began to notice that because my fashion career spans through the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. I think it's very interesting with all these influencers, it's really quite fascinating. I think the fashion designers will carry on leading though. It's a circle, isn’t it?